California Capitolweek #507 (/22/00

The Future of Education

(Jack)  This week, a special interactive  edition.  Improving our public schools. We’ll use innovative technology to connect classrooms from across the state, and let teachers and parents weigh in on the debate.

(Melissa)  And how do presidential candidates plan on helping public Schools make the grade?  Hello , I’m Melissa Crowley. And I’m Jack Kavanagh.  Get connected in this special edition, next.

(Melissa) Thanks for joining us.  Improving education, it’s the core issue of this year’s election. What kind of leadership and solutions are Californians looking for?

(Jack) To get those answers we are using interactive technology . . . .. linking the cities of Delano and Oakland California.   Two very different communities with similar concerns.

(Melissa) At each site, the district superintendent, a teacher, and  a parent will join us.  They will be able to participate in our discussion Joining us in studio . . Delaine Eastin, state superintendent of public instruction. And Bill Lucia, former executive director of the state board of education and advisor to Pete Wilson. We’ll hear from them in a moment. But first, a look at how each presidential candidate plans to improve our schools.

(VO)

George Bush supports strong accountability measures, as well as more money for schools that improve, and less for those that fail. He also proposes annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight. “ I think . . read in English.”

(Melissa) On the other side, Al Gore’s plan  includes three years of help from outside experts, re-training and after-school classes. If that does not work, the school would be shut down and re-opened with new teachers and administrators. outcue: classroom

(Melissa) Let’s get a quick word on how California is doing on improving our public schools. Delaine, where do we stand today?

((Delaine Eastin)) Oh, we’re making great strides in the right direction.  Five years ago, the state had no standards, no testing, and no system of accountability.  Now, we have all three.  We’ve reduced class sizes in K-3 to make sure that children learn and get foundation skills in mathematics, we’re bringing library books back, and we’ve bought a record number of textbooks for our children, and we’re focusing on improving our teacher education.

((Jack)) Sounds good, Bill, but how far do we have to go?

((Bill Lucia)) Well, it’s easy to improve when you’re starting from the bottom, but the good news is we’re starting to inch back up.  The latest STAR test scores show that California is improving, and we’re seeing some remarkable progress with limited English proficient students, so, I’d say that we still have many of the big pieces of education reform, but we’re not quite sure how, in California, those will fit together.

(Jack) Let’s hear from our guests from at  remote locations. Let’s start with Princeton Elementary school in Delano . . .  . . .a small rural city about 50 miles outside of Fresno. It’s a school that proves success comes from hard work.

DELANO Report

Heidi Dyar: I just love kids.  I love being with kids.

Heidi Dyar has been a teacher for eleven years.  She’s taught kids of all ages.

Heidi Dyar: To come in and figure out a way for them to learn a certain topic or idea, that’s exciting for me.  Every day is different.

And challenging.  Delano is a rural city with a large population of non-English speaking children.  Many of whom have parents with a limited education.

Heidi Dyar: More is being asked of teachers.  Students come in with more problems, problems from home, and I can’t tell you how many challenges there are.  There are so many, and I’m still surprised I do this.

And the constant criticism of teachers doesn’t help

Heidi Dyar: The fact that the state test, the standardized tests that we are supposed to take, and the standards don’t match, so why are we being judged on this state testing when it doesn’t coincide with what we’re supposed to be teaching?

Still, Princeton Elementary is one of the top performing schools in the district, and Dyar says no one should expect less

Heidi Dyar: A lot of schools are doing a great job, but I think some could do even better.

END DELANO Report

((Jack)) Joining us now in Delano is First grade teacher Heidi Dyar.  Bill and Delaine have said that we’re doing okay.  We’re making some progress.  Do you agree with that?

((Heidi)) Yes, I do.

((Jack)) Because, you’re in the trenches, you’re on the frontlines, and what is the story that you can tell us, people who are from San Diego to Eureka watching this tonight, what can you tell us about what you need in your classroom?

((Heidi))  I think what I need for my classroom is one two things.  One, students need to be more well-prepared when they enter the school system.  We have a lot of students that don’t have literature in their homes, that don’t know how to write their names, that don’t have experience writing, and they need that, because they’re already behind as they enter first grade.  The other thing is parent’s support and consideration.  Parents need to be more accountable so that they are helping out the students.  Even if they aren’t helping out with the work, if they’re making education a priority.

((Jack)) Napoleon, you’re a parent.  Are you satisfied with the education your children are getting in the local schools?

((Napoleon)) As a parent, I don’t think we’re ever satisfied with what our children are doing.  I think parental expectations always exceed what they’re actually doing.  However, I do think that parental involvement is necessary for a good education for your children.

((Melissa)) Dr. Woosley, you’re the superintendent of this district, and there are many challenges in this district, including many families that don’t know English as a first language.  Are we meeting some of those needs?

((Milton Woosley, Superintendent)) Without question, we are.  We took in and embraced the change when [proposition] 227 came about.  We knew that this had to be a major trust in our district.  We adopted new ELD or English Language Development programs.  We hired teachers to take on the task of working with other teachers to train them.  We are targeting the instructional language needs of children.  We can see a major difference with them.

((Melissa)) Delaine, there are so many different languages.  California is really an incredibly diverse state.  What are we doing to make sure that we reach all these different groups that we’re trying to educate as well?

((Delaine Eastin)) Well, first, I want to validate what Heidi said, one of the big things that America and California have to do is focus on universal preschool so that every child enters school ready to learn.  The brain is being developed before the age of five.  Much learning occurs before then.  Second, we have to reduce class size in K through 3^rd grade so that we can get our kids started in the right direction.  Third, we’ve put a much greater emphasis on English language learners.  We’ve extended the school day for these children, and there’s been a real effort in the legislature to give us more time after school to teach English.  We’ve created an English development test to make sure that they’re really learning to speak English.  It’s under development now.  The legislature put that into place, and, just generally, there is a lot more opportunities for children to learn because there are more textbooks and more time.

((Jack)) Bill, is language the main component?  Is this the major obstacle that we have to get around?

((Bill Lucia)) Well certainly it is when you think about the core skill of reading, and the one thing that we’ve focused on more for English proficient limited kids more than anything after Prop 227 is that they’re learning how to read through phonemic awareness and phonics decoding, finding sounds and syllables, words, and sentences in the English language, rather than in another language.  The San Francisco Chronicle reported just a couple weeks ago that we had Vietnamese children in Oakland being taught Spanish as their language arts class, and that only 15 out of 5000 limited proficient kids were transferred from a limited English proficient program to fully English proficient, so we do have mixed results, but in the state in Delano and down in Oceanside, we have seen where they focus on teaching all children, regardless of their native tongue, in a very systematic, research-based way

((Jack)) Because reading makes up so much of the core.

((Bill Lucia)) Yes.

(Melissa) Now, let’s introduce you to our Oakland participants.

Castlemont High School is one of the district’s lowest performing schools, but is working hard to turn things around. As one teacher tells us, every student makes the effort worthwhile.

CASTLEMONT Report

Life for many of the 1,500 students at Castlemont High School is not easy.

Student: If we can walk around the corner and see someone get killed, what’s music going to do?

Today’s discussion, the influence of violence and the media

Student: My mom, when I was little, she let me see all those violent movies and stuff like that, and I thank her for it because it showed me that there is stuff like that out in the real world.

English Teacher, Vicky Stoneham, understands the harsh realities many of these students face

Vicky Stoneham, English Teacher: I am a product of the inner city, and I promised myself when I graduated that I would take my career and motivate my students to be an example.  If I did it, you can too.

She believes more resources would help

Vicky Stoneham, English Teacher: If we could bring in some more counselors, social worker a lot of kids just need someone to talk to.

This year, the school and class hopes to emphasize the positive

Student: The students here have a lot of talent.

They have some ideas to improve

Student: The money that we do have, we need to use it for the right thing, not, like, fences around the school

Student: Basically, books and stuff so that we can have books sometimes.

Stoneham says with the right tools, this school will succeed.

Vicky Stoneham, English Teacher: It’s reachable.  It’s attainable.  Your goals and your dreams, they can come true.

END CASTLEMONT Report

(Melissa)  Joining us now from Oakland is Vicky Stoneham.  Vicky, thank you for joining us and for letting us sit in on that class.  Vicky, when you spoke to us, you mentioned that there are many other needs that folks who aren’t in education might not realize, the social needs that these kids are bringing into the classroom.  Is the state meeting your needs as a teacher  to try and help?

((Vicky Stoneham, English Teacher)) Well, in my opinion, I think we need to improve in that area.  I would like to see some type of mentorship program.  I would also like to see more community involvement to aid the students.  I would also like to have software installed on our computers to prepare kids for the standardized tests.

((Melissa)) Superintendent Dennis Chaconas of the Oakland School District is with you as well.  Hello, Dennis

((Dennis)) Hi.

((Melissa))  Hi.  Dennis, there are lots of challenges in the Oakland school district.  Can you identify how you’re trying to improve both morale and test scores?

((Dennis)) Well, I think the main issue for our students is that they have not had access to the core curriculum, and that’s making sure that all teachers are aware of the curriculum, have the materials to deliver those services, and make sure that youngsters master  that material.  We’re going through a whole new reading program in our elementary schools because I’m concerned about the number of youngsters who are not reading at grade level by the end of third grade.  If they’re not reading by the end of third grade, we’re doing remediation from that point on.  We’ve also increased the compensation to attract more teachers to Oakland.  We had 800 emergency credentials, and we’ve increased that significantly, so we have a lot of work going on.  We’re going to be successful because we have great kids in Oakland.

((Jack)) Let me interject a question here.  I asked Napoleon over at Delano how he rated his local school system.  Norman Peer, you’re a parent in Oakland, and you’ve put several kids through the school system in Oakland.  Are you satisfied with the education they are getting in Oakland?

((Norman Peer, Parent)) Well, yes, to a certain extent, but I feel as though, with more parents participating, the kids would be a lot better, and the teachers’ jobs would be a lot easier.

((Melissa)) Vicky, you talked about how achieving these goals can take time, and for any of you in Oakland, is patience what we need to get this job done, or can we expect some positive results in, say, the next year?

((Dennis Chaconas, Superintendent)) Well, surely as the new superintendent, I expect significant improvements within the next year on the SAT-9 test.  Our youngsters can’t wait.  They’re entering a world that’s highly competitive, and if we don’t do our job, then they’re not going to be able to reach their dreams.

((Melissa)) And Vicky, what do you hope to accomplish with your students in the immediate future?  Regardless of the outcome of the elections and the new standards, you still have to get your job done and in the next few years to come.

((Vicky Stoneham, English Teacher)) Well, I hope to continue as I have in the past which is incorporating teaching strategies within the state framework I do that in my classroom--,and I also hope to instill and build in them the ability to achieve their desires and to dream their dreams and to be successful, and I try to be that resource, that person they can come to and speak with when they have issues outside the classroom, but it’s rough to try and wear all these different hats, which is why I would also really like to have more mentors on campus.

((Jack)) Delaine, let me ask you this.  We’re seeing a fabulous view into the trenches where the teaching takes place.  Are the teachers really caught in the crossfire here?  As we’ve seen from the teachers here, there’s a lot of pressure on them to produce, but they can only produce based on the background that the kids bring to the classroom themselves.  How do they win in a situation like that?

((Delaine Eastin, State Superintendent of Public Instruction)) Well, yes and no.  I mean, both of these veteran teachers can give you wonderful success stories of children they’ve supported over the years who may not have come from affluent or even literate families, and that’s why I say the most important teacher in a child’s life is a parent, but the most important job in America in the occupational sense is being a teacher, and what we need are dedicated people like these who want to go into the trenches, and, yes, they love their kids and support them, but they need to be supported with counselors.  We should bring counselors back.  We should bring mentors into the schools.  We should make sure that there’s an opportunity for social services.  We’re asking our teachers to deal with everything from emotional illness they’re being abused in some cases; I bet both of these teachers have seen kids with problems along those lines. to head lice, all kinds of things.  You know, bring the nurses and counselors back so that the teachers and the principals can focus on the curriculum and the academic side.  That’s what we need to do.

((Melissa)) Thanks Delaine.  Heidi, from your perspective as a teacher you’re so busy in the classroom all day, how important is parental support at home to complete the successful education equation?

((Heidi Dyar, First Grade Teacher)) I can’t tell you how important it is because a student’s education shouldn’t go from just eight o’clock in the morning to 2:25.  It should be twenty-four hours a day, whether it’s character building, making sure that the homework gets done.  Again, just emphasizing the importance of education, whether you speak the language or not.  If you say that education is important and you put priority on it before other things, that would help me so much.

((Melissa)) Bill, what happens when there isn’t that parental support at home?  What can we do to help meet those needs?

((Bill Lucia, Former Executive Director of the State Board of Education)) Well, it’s very challenging.  In fact, part of the low performing school program that was enacted by the legislature in last year’s special session contemplates the idea of a consultant coming in and advising the school committee as well as parents, the business community and others to be a part of education reform.  There are some major flaws in that program though.  One being that it’s not required.  This is a voluntary program, and right now we have 269 of the worst performing schools in California that haven’t even signed up for the program, and the two schools that are visiting with us today are both considered low performing schools under the Governor’s definition.  The school in Delano actually ranks higher than the school in Oakland, and yet, the Delano school was funded in their application for a grant for the low performing school funding and the Oakland school district was denied last year, so they have to come to the queue again this year and ask for a grant.

((Jack)) Norman, you’re watching this very, very carefully.  I could see you watching in Oakland as Bill was discussing what was available and what was not provided for Oakland.  As a parent who has students in the Oakland schools, do you feel like you were, perhaps, a little cheated by the state?

((Norman Peer, Parent)) I can’t hear him.

((Jack)) Well, Bill, let me ask the question of you.  We spent half the state budget.  In some cases, more than that, and I’m sure there are viewers watching this and seeing what’s happening in Delano and seeing what’s happening in Oakland and saying, Wait a minute.  Where’s my money going?  Is that a legitimate question?

((Bill Lucia)) Absolutely.  For the first time ever, in local and state dollars, the state is spending thirty billion dollars on K through 12 education.  When you add up federal dollars and other assistance,  local bonds, and state bonds on school construction, it’s over forty billion dollars a year, and the question is if not now, when are we going to address these issues, and why is it that the lowest performing schools in California are not required to participate in the accountability program, and why is it that the state is choosing to, at random, pick those that get the extra assistance from Sacramento?

((Jack)) That brings us to another big issue on the ballot in California this election which we all know is vouchers.  California voters will have to decide on Proposition 38.  That initiative would give some parents four thousand dollars in state funds to spend on the public, private, or religious school of their choice.

((Melissa)) Delaine, as we look at the voucher initiative, is that where we need to be headed with our public schools or is that something that you think is going to help these schools meet some of the needs that we were talking about?

((Delaine Eastin)) Well, I don’t think it’s where we need to head, and, following up on Bill’s point, I support making us have a mandatory system of compliance for low performing schools.  Prop 38 takes us in exactly the opposite direction.  There is no compliance required, so that a college dropout who was an ex-felon could open a school and teach anything they jolly well please.  The way it’s written, they’re not required to teach to state standards.  They’re not required to get the kind of accountability that these parents are asking for, and indeed, there could be outright liars.  You know, parents get four thousand dollars worth of tax-free money.  The reality is there are some parents who could teach their children at home and do a very fine job, but there parents who would take that money and use it to buy, God knows, crack or whatever else.

((Jack)) Well, we have two parents right here.  We’ll ask them.

((Melissa)) Napoleon, we’ll start with you in Delano.  What are your thoughts on the voucher initiative?  As a parent, would that offer you some choice?

((Napoleon Madrid)) Well, I’m fortunate enough that I’ve had choices in the past.  Actually, I have had two children go through, not only the public schools but the private schools.  One of the things that concerns me is that with private schools sometimes not all the needs can be addressed, and so, with the public school system, we know that most of the needs can be addressed.  However, another issue would be that vouchers continually I think this will be the third time that they’re on the ballot, so this is probably something that we’ll have to deal with in the future, if not now.

((Melissa)) Norman, same question for you in Oakland.  You’ve been very involved with ten children and, also, a grandchild and extracurricular activities.  You’re big on discipline to help kids succeed in schools.  Do you think that a voucher might help?

((Norman Peer)) No, I don’t.  I think the money that they plan on talking about putting into vouchers should be put into buying books and things for the schools.

((Melissa)) Norman, what do you think it’s going to take to make sure our kids have a strong education, whether it’s a voucher initiative or supporting our public schools?

((Norman Peer)) Well, I believe it’s just supporting our public schools and parent participation.  I’d stress that.

((Melissa)) Thank you, Norman.

((Jack)) We’ve had three votes, two parents and the Superintendent of Public Education, against vouchers.  Bill, make the case for vouchers.

((Bill Lucia)) Well, it’s interesting.  The last time we visited about this issue was prior to the conventions, the Republican and Democrat national conventions, and I think that the best person to make the case for vouchers is Mr. Gore who said within the last few weeks as reported in the New York Post: If I was the parent of a child who went to an inner city school that was failing, I might be for vouchers, too.  That’s a quote from  President Gore.  Clearly, Senator Lieberman has stood on the Senate floor and supported vouchers.  There are parents who are standing in line to redeem vouchers through private, philanthropic foundations where they even have to pony up some of their own money.  The Milwaukee program has a waiting list.  The question is, if you don’t have accountability in the public schools, where you have the ACLU bringing lawsuits, where the PTA has to purchase toilet paper for schools, on our watch, when are we going to provide parents with the opportunity to

((Jack)) Let’s ask these questions back in the school districts.

((Melissa)) Dr. Woosley, let’s start with you.  It’s the beginning of a new school year.  There’s lots of enthusiasm.  What’s the morale in your school, and is there talk about vouchers and maybe trying to improve and be one step ahead of that ballot initiative?

((Dr. Milton Woosley))  The morale is very high in our school district because we realized that with a great deal of effort with preschool, with latchkey programs, with lots of investment from the children and parents, we’re seeing that success coming, and we’ve seen a great rise in our EPI scores, and we’re pleased with that.  The voucher initiative would be detrimental to our community because there’s no place for our children to go.  If they got the voucher, they wouldn’t have a place to take their children because we’re landlocked.  The nearest place is thirty to forty-five miles, and, as a result, we would find those that are economically advantaged would take advantage of it, and it would leave again the poor children not having this advantage, and that’s one of the big problems, to take away the opportunities in public education.

((Jack)) Let’s put the same the same question to Dennis Chaconas.  You’re the new superintendent in Oakland.  Actually, how would this make your life very difficult if vouchers passed while you’re trying to get this school district going in one direction?

((Dennis Chaconas)) Well, I think the state is finally investing money into public education and built in accountability.  The voucher if it passed, would lead in the wrong direction for most kids.  I was born and raised in Oakland, went to Oakland’s public schools, and I can tell you, my parents would have sent me to the neighborhood school voucher or no voucher.  My concern is that you would be draining precious resources away.  We’re going to turn the district around.  We want our kids to have a better education and prepared for the future, and you need to hold us accountable.  If we don’t deliver on that promise, then you need to bring someone else in, but to take money out of the system at a time that is so critical for their lives, it’s the wrong direction.

((Jack)) Delaine, let me give you the last word.  Obviously, everyone in the education community is being pressured by vouchers, and vouchers wouldn’t be viable if there wasn’t a need for them, so where are we going on this?

((Delaine Eastin)) Well, I’m fascinated.  People like Bill want to talk philosophically in a broad brush way about vouchers saying that they want more accountability, and then they write something like this which has zero accountability.  What we need is to set high standards and then really hold people accountable for all of our children reaching those standards.  We’re on our way to doing that after years of arguing over it, and we have to hold the course.  We can’t have one extreme that just wants money and doesn’t want any accountability and another extreme that wants accountability and no money.  We’ve got to have accountability and resources.

(( Melissa  )) We would like to thank everyone for participating in our interactive forum today.

And we would like your opinion on improving education.

Log onto our election website at capitol week dot org.  You can send us comments through that site. You can also take our weekly poll.  This week’s topic . . .do you support school vouchers?

 (( Jack)) Also, what did you think about the video interactivity that we used in this show? Please call this toll free number. 1-800-467-4110 Again . . 800-467-4110 Thanks to the James Irvine Foundation for helping with that survey. Next week . . . what is the best way to help drug addicts and win the war on drugs . . . prison or treatment.

(( Melissa  )) We’ll look at the arguments for and against a controversial ballot measure.  Until then. . . thanks for joining us.

(( Jack))  See you next time.